Wikidata:Property proposal/thumbtime
thumbtime
[edit]Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic
| Description | Time for video thumbnail in seconds |
|---|---|
| Represents | video thumbnail (Q137086454) |
| Data type | Quantity |
| Domain | item |
| Allowed units | second (Q11574) |
| Example 1 | xenobot (Q82309052)video (P10)c:File:Xenobots - Building the First-Ever Self-Replicating Living Robots.webm |
| Example 2 | Copenhagen Metro (Q212741)video (P10)c:File:Automatic Copenhagen Metro - Hitachi Rail Italy Driverless Metro - U-Bahn - Subway - Bahn.webm |
| Example 3 | Roman aqueduct (Q13218676)video (P10)c:File:How did Roman Aqueducts work.webm |
Motivation
[edit]With the thumbtime parameter one can set the thumbnail of videos at the places they're embedded such as Wikipedia articles on the Commons frontpage. See c:Commons:Video#Setting a video thumbnail image.
I'm proposing a new thumbtime property is used as a qualifier for video (P10) which can then be used to:
- eventually display a good fitting thumbnail in the Wikidata item (this may require some code changes)
- display the specified thumbnail for videos in the Wikidata infobox that's shown in Commons category pages
- include this in the thumbtime parameter of video suggestions if videos set on Wikidata items are suggested for Wikipedia articles that are linked to that item
- see W310: Suggest media set in Wikidata items for their Wikipedia articles (voting on it open; this would make contributions to Wikidata much more valuable as the videos specified there find their way into Wikipedia articles that lack media and because few people adding media to WD items also add them to the linked Wikipedia articles…I recommend you check that page out which has more info on this)
Furthermore, I suggest that the readily-available thumbtime data of Commons' Media of the Day videos is imported to where these videos are used. This would set a good thumbtime to maybe 100 items or so – see this Commons search query that shows the pages this could be imported from (note: it uses two formats 01:01 and 61). Maybe somebody knows how this could be done. Maybe one could show all WD items that have a video in the Media of the Day category set that has its thumbtime specified so that one can then copy the thumbtimes over manually.
Data type should be the number in seconds but I could not find it in datatypes.
--Prototyperspective (talk) 01:08, 22 November 2025 (UTC)
- Changed datatype to quantity. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:24, 22 November 2025 (UTC)
Notified participants of WikiProject Commons --Prototyperspective (talk) 13:09, 22 November 2025 (UTC)
Discussion
[edit]
Support. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:24, 22 November 2025 (UTC)- Support John Samuel (talk) 14:08, 22 November 2025 (UTC)
- Support Useful. --Yann (talk) 15:54, 22 November 2025 (UTC)
- Support Jerimee (talk) 16:57, 22 November 2025 (UTC)
- Comment I would like to know how the Phabricator ticket T22647 is meant to relate to this proposal. Ainali (talk) 20:42, 24 November 2025 (UTC)
- It would be Commons' way to set the thumbnail – if that ever becomes possible, the thumbtimes set there could maybe largely be imported to this property. I didn't link this issue and it's relating to this proposal in that it's also about the image thumbnail preview image (there: which thumbnail shows e.g. in Commons category pages). Prototyperspective (talk) 23:38, 24 November 2025 (UTC)
- Do we have confirmation from developers that this is the way they want it to be done or might we end up with two separate ways of doing this in the end? Ainali (talk) 07:42, 25 November 2025 (UTC)
- Again, I didn't link to this issue in this proposal. It's not part of the proposal. And I just clarified that this is a separate issue. Please see It would be Commons' way [not Wikidata's and/or Wikipedia's] to set the thumbnail – if that ever becomes possible, the thumbtimes set there could maybe largely be imported to this property […] (there: which thumbnail shows e.g. in Commons category pages [here: for Wikidata items and maybe/hopefully eventually their Wikipedia articles]. (added implicit things for clarity). Prototyperspective (talk) 12:55, 25 November 2025 (UTC)
- I must be missing something here, because exactly that is what confuses me. If we create this property, and then later the devs choose to implement another solution, then this has all been made redundant. Ainali (talk) 21:27, 25 November 2025 (UTC)
- Devs of which software? If you mean devs of the Wikidata software: the thumbtime of the videos has to be stored somewhere at the place where the video is used. If it's stored differently than via a qualifier – which afaik is how all things regarding statements in Wikidata items are stored – then the qualifiers could be imported.
- If these were used for Wikipedia or for the Commons Wikidata infobox, the qualifier could already be used.
- For the potential application of setting the thumbtime of the video within Wikidata item webpages and in sparql query results: if the qualifier is not used (seems rather unlikely) then one could use the values written to there and set them in whatever other method of setting the thumbnail is built.
- Prototyperspective (talk) 23:56, 25 November 2025 (UTC)
- I think I meant the Mediawiki developers. If they implement a solution so that the thumbtimes can be set for the video on file page itself, and then reused everywhere where a video is being used, then this solution could become redundant. Ainali (talk) 22:52, 26 November 2025 (UTC)
- This is based on the speculation that this is possible and if it is that it will be done. I don't think there is anything else on file description pages that can be used at the places where videos are being used so this would be a novum. By the way, the best thumbnail may vary per item/subject so it's an advantage to be able to set this on a per item basis (probably quite rare though). Maybe you could ask developers whether this could/will become possible. Seeing that the issue, as with many code problems, is open since 2009, I doubt that it will be implemented any time soon. In contrast, the Wikidata infobox could I think use the thumbtime as soon as it's implemented here. Prototyperspective (talk) 23:16, 26 November 2025 (UTC)
- Wait, this was not meant to be in SDC but on items? Then everything I said can be disregarded. I would support the proposal if this was possible to understand from the template, but there's way too many empty parameters in that one still. Ainali (talk) 09:15, 27 November 2025 (UTC)
- It was meant to be set as a qualifier on items. Note: I don't object for this to be used instead or additionally as structured data on Commons if that's identified as the better method to use this property. That currently can't be queried as well and can't be used by the Wikidata infobox etc so I think use as qualifier would be better. I thought the examples (the statements) make this clear. As far as I can see, all but the status parameter (which shouldn't be set by me) are set in the property proposal template but if there's more than these and I should set some of them (or if you mean another template), please tell me which. Prototyperspective (talk) 13:52, 27 November 2025 (UTC)
- I think the parameter
domainwould help a lot,subject itemwouldn't hurt either, and explicitly addingallowed unitsto the template would also make it clearer to understand at a glance. Ainali (talk) 22:22, 27 November 2025 (UTC)
Done--Prototyperspective (talk) 00:04, 28 November 2025 (UTC)
- I am a bit confused by "property" as value for
domain. I would have expected "item", because isn't it on items we will use this rather than on properties? If so, to express that it should be used as a qualifier, I thinkother-constraintscould have property constraint (P2302)property scope constraint (Q53869507)property scope (P5314)as qualifier (Q54828449) . Ainali (talk) 15:53, 28 November 2025 (UTC)- Probably just a mistake on my side; the template documentation is imo difficult to understand: I meant it should be used on Wikidata items' properties, namely the properties into which video files on Commons are entered (video (P10) is the one I'm aware and which would be the main property). Will edit the domain – please let me know if I got it wrong. Prototyperspective (talk) 15:55, 1 December 2025 (UTC)
- I am a bit confused by "property" as value for
- I think the parameter
- It was meant to be set as a qualifier on items. Note: I don't object for this to be used instead or additionally as structured data on Commons if that's identified as the better method to use this property. That currently can't be queried as well and can't be used by the Wikidata infobox etc so I think use as qualifier would be better. I thought the examples (the statements) make this clear. As far as I can see, all but the status parameter (which shouldn't be set by me) are set in the property proposal template but if there's more than these and I should set some of them (or if you mean another template), please tell me which. Prototyperspective (talk) 13:52, 27 November 2025 (UTC)
- Wait, this was not meant to be in SDC but on items? Then everything I said can be disregarded. I would support the proposal if this was possible to understand from the template, but there's way too many empty parameters in that one still. Ainali (talk) 09:15, 27 November 2025 (UTC)
- This is based on the speculation that this is possible and if it is that it will be done. I don't think there is anything else on file description pages that can be used at the places where videos are being used so this would be a novum. By the way, the best thumbnail may vary per item/subject so it's an advantage to be able to set this on a per item basis (probably quite rare though). Maybe you could ask developers whether this could/will become possible. Seeing that the issue, as with many code problems, is open since 2009, I doubt that it will be implemented any time soon. In contrast, the Wikidata infobox could I think use the thumbtime as soon as it's implemented here. Prototyperspective (talk) 23:16, 26 November 2025 (UTC)
- I think I meant the Mediawiki developers. If they implement a solution so that the thumbtimes can be set for the video on file page itself, and then reused everywhere where a video is being used, then this solution could become redundant. Ainali (talk) 22:52, 26 November 2025 (UTC)
- Devs of which software? If you mean devs of the Wikidata software: the thumbtime of the videos has to be stored somewhere at the place where the video is used. If it's stored differently than via a qualifier – which afaik is how all things regarding statements in Wikidata items are stored – then the qualifiers could be imported.
- I must be missing something here, because exactly that is what confuses me. If we create this property, and then later the devs choose to implement another solution, then this has all been made redundant. Ainali (talk) 21:27, 25 November 2025 (UTC)
- Again, I didn't link to this issue in this proposal. It's not part of the proposal. And I just clarified that this is a separate issue. Please see It would be Commons' way [not Wikidata's and/or Wikipedia's] to set the thumbnail – if that ever becomes possible, the thumbtimes set there could maybe largely be imported to this property […] (there: which thumbnail shows e.g. in Commons category pages [here: for Wikidata items and maybe/hopefully eventually their Wikipedia articles]. (added implicit things for clarity). Prototyperspective (talk) 12:55, 25 November 2025 (UTC)
- Do we have confirmation from developers that this is the way they want it to be done or might we end up with two separate ways of doing this in the end? Ainali (talk) 07:42, 25 November 2025 (UTC)
- It would be Commons' way to set the thumbnail – if that ever becomes possible, the thumbtimes set there could maybe largely be imported to this property. I didn't link this issue and it's relating to this proposal in that it's also about the image thumbnail preview image (there: which thumbnail shows e.g. in Commons category pages). Prototyperspective (talk) 23:38, 24 November 2025 (UTC)
- @Ainali, Jerimee, Jsamwrites, Pigsonthewing, Prototyperspective, Yann: Done -- Regards, ZI Jony (Talk) 18:07, 10 April 2026 (UTC)