Wikidata:Property proposal/Taking Stock ID

‎Taking Stock ID

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Authority control

   Done: Taking Stock ID (P14001) (Talk and documentation)

Description	Catalogue of some Catholic churches in England and Wales. It is run by the Catholic Bishops' Conference of England and Wales (Q866173) and focuses on architecture. It has 2,800 entries, so not every church but most.
Represents	Catholic church building (Q1088552)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	Catholic church building (Q1088552), church building (Q16970), England (Q21), Wales (Q25), United Kingdom (Q145), Wikidata property related to Catholicism and the Catholic Church (Q64263681)
Example 1	St Clare, Fagley (Q137216479) → bradford-st-clare
Example 2	Our Lady of Sorrows, Peckham (Q26657132) → peckham-our-lady-of-sorrows
Example 3	St Thomas More Church, Dulwich (Q48698890) → dulwich-st-thomas-more
Source	https://taking-stock.org.uk
Planned use	To replace described at URL (P973) for churches already entered. Then, going forward, to add to each entry for a Catholic Church in England and Wales
Number of IDs in source	2799
Expected completeness	eventually complete (Q21873974)
Formatter URL	https://taking-stock.org.uk/building/$1
See also	A Church Near You church ID (P5464), GCatholic church ID (P2971), French Catholic Church structure ID (P3396)
Wikidata project	Wikidata:WikiProject_Religions

Motivation

I've been adding a link to this site as I work through mapping Catholic churches and parishes in England. I've been adding as Described at URL, and I think it would be better to be formalised as a property. It contains information which can be better than the entries for listed buildings, and covers many non-listed churches. Secretlondon (talk) 20:31, 5 December 2025 (UTC)

Discussion

Jheald (talk) 09:48, 11 January 2015 (UTC) PKM (talk) 19:09, 11 January 2015 (UTC) Fabian Tompsett (WMUK) (talk) 08:51, 12 January 2015 (UTC) Charles Matthews (talk) 09:27, 15 January 2015 (UTC) Filceolaire (talk) 16:27, 4 February 2015 (UTC) Danrok (talk) 13:01, 19 October 2015 (UTC) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits JJBullet (talk) 10:55, 27 June 2019 (UTC) Yirba (talk) 09:53, 10 August 2023 (UTC) Lewis Hulbert (talk) 12:58, 25 October 2024 (UTC) Secretlondon (talk) 12:46, 6 December 2025 (UTC)

Notified participants of WikiProject UK and Ireland

•  Support I count ~300 Catholic Church Buildings on wikidata (In England and Wales) with only ~100 having an enwiki article, so adding 2,700 outlinks to well written articles will be useful. Tæppa (talk) 21:58, 5 December 2025 (UTC)

@Tæppa: Looking at Category:Roman Catholic church buildings in the United Kingdom (Q8676825) on Commons and some of the infoboxes there for individual churches, it looks like there may be wikidata items for more churches than that, but perhaps not identified as Catholic? Indeed, many of the items appear not very well developed at all: more good reason to support this property (and thank User:Secretlondon for their work on this). Jheald (talk) 09:29, 8 December 2025 (UTC)

The worst ones seem to be those that are known to Wikidata through being listed buildings. Often they don't have the basics such as type of church or street address! In general the categories in commons need sorting out first - we have greater coverage than it appears at first glance, as photos are in random categories and often poorly named. I've been approaching it by a) see what there should be, b) finding the photos, c) modelling on Wikidata. Secretlondon (talk) 19:56, 8 December 2025 (UTC)

Do you have any thoughts on what subject type constraint (Q21503250) and item-requires-statement constraint (Q21503247) values should be used on the property? This could be discussed on a wikiproject or the future properties' discussion page, but it's worth bringing up now.

1. Is religion or worldview (P140) always Catholicism (Q1841) and Christian liturgical rite (P3501) always Roman Rite (Q730757) (with scope to add start time (P580) or end time (P582) if needed)?
2. Are located in the religious territorial entity (P5607) and diocese (P708) always stated or otherwise findable (exceptions could use novalue)?
3. St Paul's Ecumenical Centre, Thamesmead (Q136913440) is a "Shared church building" which "has parts" St Paul (Q105076809) and St Paul's Catholic Church, Thamesmead (Q136913373). Would a "Taking Stock ID" property refer then to the congregation's "worship area" / "worship space" (terms used on Taking Stock), or would it be limited to items that describe the entire church building (Q16970) rather than requiring the scope to be for Catholic church building (Q1088552)? Tæppa (talk) 23:03, 8 December 2025 (UTC)

1. religion or worldview (P140) should always be Catholicism (Q1841). I find Christian liturgical rite (P3501) irritating - I only add it as GCatholic church ID (P2971) requires it. There are more rites than Roman Rite (Q730757) so it shouldn't have a particular value. However, I haven't looked up details for eastern Catholic Churches in the UK to see if Taking Stock covers any, but non-roman rite Catholic Churches exist in the UK. I think diocese (P708) is okay as if a building gets sold we can add start and stop times. Every active church is in a diocese. It might be useful to map out how I've been modelling these on a separate page as I've made some decisions which people might want to input on, or have better ways of doing things.

2. I started adding these as a way of sorting out church photos on commons. Originally I wanted to ensure we had a photo of every Catholic Church in my London borough. This involves making a list of churches, finding the photos on commons and making a Wikidata item for each one. commons:Category:Roman Catholic churches in the London Borough of Southwark gives the basic idea. Each church has a category linked to the Wikidata item. However, the church doesn't use local government areas - it has deaneries with geographical names such as Camberwell deanery (Q136543448). Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Southwark (Q1365617)'s hierarchy is parish -> deanery -> group of deaneries -> the diocese. Roman Catholic Diocese of Leeds (Q871138) has some parishes with multiple churches. It goes church -> parish -> deanery -> the diocese. I've been mapping the relationship between parish and deanery (and church and parish when relevant) with located in the religious territorial entity (P5607).

3. The multi-church building in Thamesmead is complex and probably the only one like that. Taking Stock described the set up well so I added it to the entry for the whole building. Secretlondon (talk) 13:32, 9 December 2025 (UTC)

I think every one should have street address (P6375) as buildings with a lack of address details are irritating! We have so many listed buildings without street addresses. Secretlondon (talk) 13:36, 9 December 2025 (UTC)

I've just found Archdiocese of Liverpool parish ID (P9489) which was listed on Wikidata property related to Catholicism and the Catholic Church (Q64263681). It's an attempt to make an identifier from a diocese's website and looks broken (everything returns 404). We need a wiki project to co-ordinate this stuff! Secretlondon (talk) 13:45, 9 December 2025 (UTC)

•  Support. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:03, 6 December 2025 (UTC)
•  Support - PKM (talk) 19:03, 6 December 2025 (UTC)
•  Support Looks a very good resource. Exactly the kind of thing we should be indexing. Jheald (talk) 09:15, 8 December 2025 (UTC)

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@Secretlondon, Tæppa, Jheald, Pigsonthewing, PKM:  Done: Taking Stock ID (P14001). --Lewis Hulbert (talk) 10:32, 16 December 2025 (UTC)

Also created a Mix'n'match catalogue. --Lewis Hulbert (talk) 12:29, 16 December 2025 (UTC)

It doesn't link to the website though. Secretlondon (talk) 21:59, 16 December 2025 (UTC)

or it does, but you need to re-enter some of them. Secretlondon (talk) 22:10, 16 December 2025 (UTC)