User talk:نعم البدل

Hi, small note – Even though it may seem like I'm online, I might not respond right away. I might be online to quickly dump my notes on Wiktionary before they disappear from my thoughts, and not have time to reply! سَلَام (salām)!

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• 2022 / ۲۰۲۲ء
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• 2024 / ۲۰۲۴ء

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Enjoy your stay at Wiktionary! --Apisite (talk) 09:15, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! نعم البدل (talk) 11:36, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

ہولے ہولے

.تجویز اور ہدایت کی درکار

یہ شاید فصیح یا معیاری اردو نہ مانی جائے، مگر لفظ ہولے ریختہ میں موجود ہے اور اس گانے کی وجہ سے عام فہم بھی ہے، چاہے کہ وہ اس مخصوص سیاق تک ہی محدود ہو، یہ تو ایسے کہنا ہوا کہ اگر میں کس کے بجائے پھدی یا اویں ہی کہوں تو کیا میں پنجابی بول رہا ہوں؟ بجائے پنجابک اردو کے؟ Syamantak07 (talk) 19:46, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

@Syamantak07: آپ کے پیغام کیلئے میں شکر گزار ہوں۔ میں آپ کی اس بات سے اتفاق کرتا ہوں کہ لوگ عموماً اس لفظ کو جانتے ہوں اور اس کے معنی سے بھی واقف ہوں، البتہ میرے نزدیک اس لفظ کا استعمال صرف پنجابی زبان میں ہے، اور بلکہ پنجابی (اردو) لسان میں بھی یہ لفظ استعمال نہیں کیا جاتا۔ اس کے علاوہ بھی کچھ وجہات ہیں، مگر الغرض میں نہیں سمجھتا اس لفظ کو اردو لغت میں شمار کیا جا سکتا ہے۔ نعم البدل (talk) 19:59, 6 April 2025 (UTC)

رابطہ

جناب میں آپ سے بات کرنی ہے کسی معاملہ میں، برائے مہربانی آپ مجھے رابطہ کریں یہ میرا ڈسکورڈ ہے

ufobread9

مجھے ذرہ ایک ضروری بات کرنی ہے آپ سے Syamantak07 (talk) 10:45, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

شکریہ۔ ڈسکورڈ پر آپ کو رکویسٹ بھیجی ہے۔ نعم البدل (talk) 20:57, 29 July 2025 (UTC)

حالیہ

@نعم البدل brother, I see you changed from

* {{IPA|ur|/ɦɑː.lɪ.jə/}}

to

* {{ur-IPA|hāli.ya~}}

but you see what it now shows is /ɦɑː.lɪ.jɑ(ː)/ which is not more correct than the previous /ɦɑː.lɪ.jə/

moreover I perceive you insist upon using {{ur-IPA}} instead of {{IPA|ur}}, is there a reason to which you want me to avoid using that? Also, I wonder if @83.28.51.8 were you too, if yes please check the talk of page of حالیہ MurjhayaAanch (talk) 13:30, 19 August 2025 (UTC)

template:table:colors/ur

HI, @نعم البدل atleast provide me the reason for which you reverted my edits on template:table:colors/ur MurjhayaAanch (talk) 13:32, 19 August 2025 (UTC)

@نعم البدل seems You are not in a mood to provide me with one. May I take it as that revert was unreasonable. Then may I put my edits back? MurjhayaAanch (talk) 14:33, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

@MurjhayaAanch: Hi, yes – apologies. I have not had time to have a discussion, but you can restore your edits. I had an issue with some of the terms included and the arrangements/order in the template. نعم البدل (talk) 21:19, 22 August 2025 (UTC)

@نعم البدل Oh, I see, no worries, You can discuss the adjustments you want if you want, whenever you feel free or interested. I would love discussing it.

Also, can you please confirm what I asked about the pronunciation template in the topic just above this one (i.e., User_talk:نعم البدل#حالیہ) MurjhayaAanch (talk) 08:05, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

@MurjhayaAanch: - We typically use the Template:ur-IPA as it's modular and IPA's can be generated on the basis of transliterations or direct vocalised lemmas, instead of fixed transcriptions. As for the pronunciation of the final-hay, it is not a schwa, rather it's typically a 'ɑ', typically reduced. نعم البدل (talk) 20:26, 24 August 2025 (UTC)

Oh thanks MurjhayaAanch (talk) 13:55, 26 August 2025 (UTC)

Alternative forms

Hey, mate! I wanted to talk about the redirection rules for entries. I would ask you to not redirect spelling variants to the standard spelling variant and let the alternative form be an extra page with its own entry with the alternative spelling template. Thank you! 🙏🏽 RonnieSingh (talk) 10:29, 23 August 2025 (UTC)

Hi @RonnieSingh – do you have any examples? I typically only do moves or redirects if it contains errors. Any alternative forms, like nuqta-less or dialectal forms do and should have their own pages, with as you say, alternative spelling templates.

If I've done it, it will have been a sloppy edit of mine. نعم البدل (talk) 20:01, 23 August 2025 (UTC)

It might have been an old edit. Today I came across جائیداد redirected to جائداد. RonnieSingh (talk) 20:57, 23 August 2025 (UTC)

Need help in resolving conflict on Pahari-Pothwari Wikipedia page

Hello! Can you please help me in resolving conflict on Wikipedia in resolving issue on "Pahari-Pothwari language" page. Someone has reverted the edits labelling them as disruptive. Awaisali21m (talk) 06:24, 26 August 2025 (UTC)

changes to Urdu headword templates

Just FYI in case you haven't noticed, I made some changes to the syntax of Urdu headword templates, parallel with the same changes I made to Hindi and Punjabi templates. In essence:

1. Gender is now in 1= instead of g=.
2. In place of writing e.g. |pl=foo|pl2=bar you write |pl=foo,bar (this goes for all list params, including |head=, |tr= and gender). Inline modifiers are supported on all list params except for |tr=, allowing you to specify labels, qualifiers and the like (see the documentation of {{ur-noun}} and {{ur-adj}} for the list of possible inline modifiers).
3. The specialized templates for less-common parts of speech (verb form, preposition, postposition, postposition form, etc.) have been replaced by {{ur-head}}, which takes the part of speech or an abbreviation of it in |1= and (if appropriate) the gender in |2= (see {{head}} for the list of recognized part of speech abbreviations).
4. Finally, in place of writing e.g. |tr2=baz while omitting |tr=, you now write |tr=+,baz, where + stands for the default automatic transliteration.

The documentation should be up-to-date on all Urdu headword templates (it is generated by the module), and some of the templates have examples, e.g. {{ur-noun}} and {{ur-head}}. Benwing2 (talk) 21:02, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

Hi @Benwing2: Thank you for making me aware. Just one question. I was in the process of adding conjugation forms for a Punjabi lemma with accel, but the accel gadget keeps calling the old Template:pa-verb form. Could this be changed to the new template pa-head with the verbf parameter? نعم البدل (talk) 21:45, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

I can fix it. Which lemma is it, so I can test it? Benwing2 (talk) 21:54, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

Try it with ٹولݨا (ṭolṇā). نعم البدل (talk) 21:55, 24 October 2025 (UTC)

Lahore in multiple languages

Hi my friend, I hope you are doing well. As I know you are expert in urdu and punjabi, I have seen an anonymous user adding recently references of Hindi into Urdu, Punjabi, Gujarati, Thai even under the English spelling of Lopburi. Is it okay ? Can you have a look please. I am absolutely tired of correcting his edits regarding Sharada Script in Kashmiri (in which he adds signs which don't exist) and his edits on descendants of words where he doesn't put Official script of Kashmiri before Devanagri or ancient Sharada. Have a beautiful day, Imran Imranqazi90 (talk) 10:27, 9 May 2026 (UTC)

Hi brother, I'm good thank you. I hope you're doing well too! I've reverted his edits on pages related to Lahore. It's too much emphasis on a theory that's not confirmed. As for the lemmas in the Sharada script, I agree with you, I don't think lemmas should be created unless they are actually attested - as per WT:CFI. I have an aversion to lemmas created in alternative scripts for ad-hoc purposes. It's probably better if you take this to the Grease Pit. Perhaps @Kutchkutch or @Svartava can shed light on this. نعم البدل (talk) 15:29, 10 May 2026 (UTC)

Hi, in my understanding, the conventions on script vary from language to language. For example, in Prakrit we don't necessarily look for attestation specifically in Brahmi to create an entry on it; but making up signs by oneself is clearly bad practice and in the case of Prakrit Devanagari and Brahmi have clear one-on-one mapping - similarly Devanagari and Kaithi for Old Awadhi. For cases like Gurmukhi and Shahmukhi Punjabi or Sharada script and Perso-Arabic script Kashmiri, I'd also be leaning much more on the conservative side. – Svārtava (tɕ) 05:36, 13 May 2026 (UTC)

On a slightly separate note, should lemmas in alternative scripts (those which are seldom employed) such as Sharda or Devanagari for the Kashmiri language, or Kaithi for Awadhi etc, not refer back to the standardised/script, such as Perso-Arab for Kashmiri? نعم البدل (talk) 07:31, 13 May 2026 (UTC)

@نعم البدل: I think, yes, that can often be preferable if the alternative script is indeed used very rarely (at least Sharada for Kashmiri, not sure about Devanagari). For languages like Old Awadhi and Old Marathi we kept Kaithi and Modi as the primary scripts due to them being the original script, and Devanagari entries as soft redirect to the Kaithi/Modi ones, also since they're extinct languages now. – Svārtava (tɕ) 08:23, 13 May 2026 (UTC)

Thanks for all these insights. These make perfect sense. Imranqazi90 (talk) 21:10, 14 May 2026 (UTC)

I had a small question : Is this wiktionary having the same rule like german wiktionary, in which the word's reference should correspond to the word written in the reference. For example, I remember once a kashmiri word written in alternative script Devanagri, there was required to have the exact reference in which it was written in the reference. Otherwise, the reference wasn't applicable and was only applicable to the word in which the script was written in. For example, whenever there are Kashmiri words written in Devanagri, I usually provide a source whenever found in which it is written in Devanagri. I would not provide a source like Kashir Monolingual Dictionary in which only official and standardised script is written in it. Imranqazi90 (talk) 05:40, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

Are you referring to use of of any quotes or reference which is one script and the lemma on Wiktionary is in another? (For example a Gurmukhi reference for term in Shahmukhi)? I'm not sure on whether it's a policy or not, but I tend to challenge such things (based on WT:CFI), if I believe that it may solely be a literal transliteration, and not an actual attested term. نعم البدل (talk) 12:59, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

For Shahmukhi and Gurumukhi, you will have respective dictionaries as both are standardised scripts, just like Sindhi. For Kashmiri, the few ones we have are solely in Official Standardised Persian script. Fewer works are in Devanagri as for Sharada, it is mostly ancient manuscripts mostly in Sanskrit. Fewer written in Kashmiri. Like for example, when I get a source for Devanagri, I keep it for Devanagri and not for Official script. Vice versa. For Sharada, either an old manuscript as a reference or no reference at all. Because after it becomes like transcriptions from one script to another. For German wiktionary, I know they function as such. For languages having a variation of scripts, they will keep references to the script mentioned in the ressource and not use the same reference for alternative script forms. Imranqazi90 (talk) 14:23, 3 June 2026 (UTC)

• Like for example, when I get a source for Devanagri, I keep it for Devanagri and not for Official script. Vice versa. For Sharada, either an old manuscript as a reference or no reference at all. Because after it becomes like transcriptions from one script to another – This is what I do as well, however I don't believe there's any strict policy for this. نعم البدل (talk) 01:19, 7 June 2026 (UTC)

As for the lemmas in the Sharada script … Perhaps @Kutchkutch or @Svartava can shed light on this.

• Perhaps Sharada was used for older Kashmiri when its phonology was more comparable to Sanskrit. However, there is not enough information on older Kashmiri to make it a separate chronolect language like Old Marathi and Old Awadhi.

Between the 8th and the first quarter of the 20th century AD, Sharada was the primary script of inscriptional and literary production in Kashmir.

• After Kashmiri developed new sounds, the Perso-Arabic script accounted for the new sounds, whereas the Brahmic scripts may have ignored the new sounds until much later.
• It is true that Sharada becomes like transcriptions from one script to another, which is why Sharada forms should perhaps be derived from Devanagari rather than Perso-Arabic and be redirect entries rather than full-fledged entries.

he adds signs which don't exist

• The Unicode documentation for Sharada has an explanation on how to use those signs.

Kutchkutch (talk) 11:21, 19 June 2026 (UTC)