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Discussion regarding administrative divisions terminology

Hello. I and 0DF have discussed a number of issues at Talk:Poliske settlement hromada that might be of interest to many members of the WikiProject, and we'd appreciate the participation of other editors to resolve them. One of the main topics is the translation of the староста округ (starosta okruh); the proposed names are starostynskyi okruh, aldermanry, starosta's okruh/okrug/district/ward/circuit, and others. Other topics include inconsistent names (especially the use of transliterated adjective forms rather than noun adjuncts for Dnistrovskyi Raion & Prystolychna rural hromada) and plurals of administrative divisions (oblasts vs oblasti). Any comments are welcome to further the discussion. Thanks. Shwabb1 ⟨taco⟩ 21:00, 1 April 2026 (UTC)

@Shwabb1: Thanks for posting this. Given that there's been no expression of interest so far, do you think it would be worth my giving a summary here of our discussion concerning the translation of старостинський округ? AFAICT, you and I have more-or-less concluded that part of our conversation, but it may be difficult for others to follow that thread alone amidst all the other topics we're discussed on that hromada's talk page. 0DF (talk) 12:12, 1 June 2026 (UTC)

Yes, that would be useful. Shwabb1 ⟨taco⟩ 16:11, 4 June 2026 (UTC)

(outdent)

OK, then. This concerns how to translate the Ukrainian term старостинський округ, which is the name of an institution of local government in Ukraine, introduced in 2017, which is subordinate to a hromada, thus making it a fourth-level administrative division. Currently, that term is translated starosta okruh by the English Wikipedia's version of that article. Shwabb's and my discussion about this was prompted by my enumeration of the constituent старостинські округи of Poliske settlement hromada in its article, where I used the singular starostynskyi okruh and the plural starostynski okruhy, which transliterate the Ukrainian nominative singular (старостинський округ) and nominative plural (старостинські округи), respectively; Shwabb changed those terms to starosta okruh and starosta okruhs, respectively. A long, but very civilised and fruitful discussion ensued. Rather than recapitulate the back-and-forth of the discussion, I shall try to summarise the positions we reached by the end of the discussion. I think we both advocate changing the term used from starosta okruh to something else, but we differ on which terms would be acceptable. I believe we agree on the following:

• In starosta okruh, the word starosta is functioning as a noun adjunct. This kind of construction is unidiomatic, however, because office-holders are rarely, if ever, used as nouns adjunct like that; for office-holders, the adjective forms (presidential, ministerial, comital, etc.) or possessives are most commonly used. French has starostal for such an adjective, but English only has starostynskyi. We agree that the term starosta okruh would be improved by employing the possessive, so starosta's okruh.
• If we are to use an Anglicised plural of okruh, it should be okruhes, not okruhs.

Apart from those points, we differ to some degree. Shwabb's preferences are:

• to use Anglicised plurals (okruhes), rather than retained Ukrainian plurals (okruhy);
• to use the specifically-Ukrainian form okruh for округ where it refers to an округ in Ukraine, rather than the Macedonian, Russian, and Serbo-Croatian form, okrug; and,
• to avoid translating округ with "district", since that word translates район (raion) in the names of Ukrainian urban districts.

Whereas my preferences are:

• to use retained Ukrainian plurals (okruhy), rather than Anglicised plurals (okruhes); and
• either to stick with the Ukrainian form (starostynskyi okruh, starostynski okruhy) or to translate the term with something completely English (akin to the way Elderships of Lithuania translates the Lithuanian seniūnija, seniūnijos with the English "eldership[s]").

As Shwabb wrote, there are various options for translating округ if we keep starosta's as the first element: circuit, district, okrug, okruh, precinct, territory, and ward all came up. Circuit is the most analogous etymologically (both округ and circuit have the etymological sense "circle"); ward is the most analogous functionally.

Near the end of our discussion, we managed to happen upon aldermanry, which I consider highly suitable and which Shwabb said "look[ed] like a very good contender to [him]". Alderman and староста are etymologically closely analogous and have been used to translate each other for centuries. An alderman's ward is an aldermanry, so if a староста is an alderman and an округ is his/her ward, then a старостинський округ, it follows, is an aldermanry. If we want to call it that, that is. There is no established usage of any kind in English on the subject of старостинські округи, so, I'd argue, it's for us to decide.

@Shwabb1: I have tried to represent your opinions as best I can as I understand them. If you feel misrepresented, I apologise, and urge you to correct my account. Thank you.

― 0DF (talk) 02:31, 11 June 2026 (UTC)

I just posted about this on the English Wiktionary in wikt:Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2026/June#What should we call старостинські округи?, for anyone who might be interested. 0DF (talk) 16:13, 13 June 2026 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Freya (missile system)#Requested move 9 August 2026

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Starosta okruh has an RfC

Starosta okruh, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Shwabb1 ⟨taco⟩ 17:42, 5 October 2026 (UTC)

Dalnyk

Please add sources. Thanks for helping. Bearian (talk) 01:58, 8 October 2026 (UTC)

Added some sources. Even so, they do not support every statement in this very short article, as the topic is very obscure. Shwabb1 ⟨taco⟩ 09:40, 8 October 2026 (UTC)