Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Democracy Way

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. The arguments to keep are based in policy and have not been substantively rebutted. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:53, 10 October 2026 (UTC)

Democracy Way

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Democracy Way (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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This seems like an interesting enough topic. However, it has lacked sourcing for years at this point, and its extensive german language page has not been used to expand up the english page at all. Without the sourcing, I feel like the page should be deleted, unless someone is willing to do the work to provide any sourced information about this trail. LincolnMagnus (talk) 21:36, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

• Note: this discussion has been included in the AfD sorting lists for the following topics: History, Travel and tourism, Transportation, and Germany. LincolnMagnus (talk) 21:36, 24 September 2026 (UTC)
• Comment: If the books listed in the German article provide significant coverage it looks as if there's material on which to write an article. There also appear to be some online sources. I'll see if any are accessible via Google translate or a German speaker wanders in here. Star Mississippi 21:51, 24 September 2026 (UTC)
• Speedy keep per SK3 - no actual policy-based reason for deletion has been given by the nominator. "Nobody's working on it" is not a policy-based reason to delete an article. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:05, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

  My nomination was over the lack of sourcing to support the information, but I may have stumbled into that type of bad nomination here. If this nom does constitutes this sort of bad argument, then keeping the article is warranted. LincolnMagnus (talk) 22:26, 24 September 2026 (UTC)

• Dratify It should stay but first needs to be significantly improved PlainJane91 (talk) 06:17, 25 September 2026 (UTC)
• Dratify: I agree with PlainJane91. Farhanansari1994 (talk) 04:24, 29 September 2026 (UTC)
• Keep The article was created in 2011 and is too old to draftify. The books in the German article are about this route, based on the titles, see also this review. There is also online coverage that discusses the route briefly Kelob2678 (talk) 20:11, 1 October 2026 (UTC)

  The books in the Historischer Überblick are not about the route; they were written before the route existed. I don't read the German article as claiming that they are about the route only that they are about the places or events connected to the route. The other sources in the literature section are the travel guide and an article in a local newspaper.

  The other sources you mention are about the route or the travel guide so they are relevant to the discussion. Rolluik (talk) 20:23, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

  I thought that the history of the route starts from the 1848 revolutions. Travel guides are acceptable sources for content like this. Kelob2678 (talk) 20:25, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

  Travel guides are acceptable but this one is "scientifically based travel guide created in joint work by the participants" so it isn't independent. The route exists since 7 September 2007 to bring people/tourists to these places that where relevant in the 1848 revolutions. Rolluik (talk) 20:41, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

  The government officially established this, and historians wrote a work. Surely, they were prompted by the government, but how does this make them non-independent? By this logic, most academic work is non-independent because it is funded by third parties and many academics write about what is fashionable. Kelob2678 (talk) 20:55, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• Draftify to work on it. No article is too old to draftify. — Iadmc♫^talk  16:19, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

  WP:NOTBACKDOOR, which is a part of the deletion policy, says, "Incubation must not be used as a "backdoor to deletion". Because abandoned drafts are deleted after six months, moving articles to draft space should generally be done only for newly created articles (typically as part of new page review) or as the result of a deletion discussion. Older articles—as a rule of thumb those older than 90 days—should not be draftified without prior consensus at AfD." To me, it is clear that this page will be abandoned and deleted if draftified. Kelob2678 (talk) 16:26, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I see no valid argument for draftification here. If the 15 year old article is about a notable subject, improvement can and should be made in mainspace. If the subject isn't notable, moving it to draftspace is just a delay tactic.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 17:36, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• Delete Routes should still meet WP:GNG. We have the websites of the municipalities taking part or the travel guide that are not independent. Local coverage also exists. The book review in Die Zeit and the mention in the bpb is not enough for me. Neither is the article in the Frankfurter Rundschau (local coverage, It is currently the best source.). The books in the German article provide no coverage of the route (they were written before the route existed). There are also at least 2 other routes of Democracy. The places are notable, the route is not (yet?). Rolluik (talk) 20:08, 2 October 2026 (UTC)

• Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. Wikipedia:Notability (geographic features)#Engineered constructs says:

  Road networks: International road networks (such as the International E-road network), Interstate, national, state and provincial highways are typically notable. Topic notability for county roads, regional roads (such as Ireland's regional roads), local roads, streets and motorway service areas may vary, and may be notable if they satisfy the WP:GNG criteria, the criteria of another subject-specific notability guideline, or other criteria within this notability guideline.

  Sources

  1. The sources found by Kelob2678 (talk · contribs).
  2. Burgmaier, Ralf (2007-08-25). "Eine Straßenstation der Demokratie" [A "Democracy Way" Station]. Badische Zeitung (in German). Archived from the original on 2024-06-17. Retrieved 2026-10-05.

     A full-text copy of the paywalled article can be found on archive.today.

     The article notes: "Am 7. September 2007 findet auf dem Hambacher Schloss, das durch das historisch bedeutsame Hambacher Fest von 1832 eine der Pilgerstätten der schwarz-rot-goldenen Demokratiegeschichte ist, eine Zukunftskonferenz statt. ... Die Idee der "Straße der Demokratie" hat eine längere Vorgeschichte. Ursprünglich war sie im Rastatter Rathaus entwickelt worden. Zuletzt hatten die heutigen Promotoren aber das Problem, dass der Rastatter Oberbürgermeister das Projekt zwar an sich gezogen, aber aus unerfindlichen Gründen nicht weiter betrieben hatte. Vorstöße, es wieder flott zu bekommen, fruchteten nicht. Schließlich haben die Städte Offenburg und Karlsruhe die Initiative an sich gezogen. Die Rastatt ist damit aus dem Kreis der Teilnehmerstädte ausgeschieden."

     From Google Translate: "On September 7, 2007, a "future conference" will be held at Hambach Castle—a site of pilgrimage for the history of German democracy (symbolized by the black, red, and gold flag) due to the historically significant Hambach Festival of 1832. ... The "Road of Democracy" concept has a long backstory. It was originally developed at Rastatt City Hall. However, the current promoters eventually faced a problem: the Mayor of Rastatt had taken charge of the project but, for reasons unknown, failed to advance it. Attempts to revive the initiative proved fruitless. Ultimately, the cities of Offenburg and Karlsruhe took the lead themselves, resulting in Rastatt dropping out of the group of participating cities."

  3. "Karlsruhe präsentiert Flyer zur "Straße der Demokratie"" [Karlsruhe presents flyer for "Democracy Way"]. ka-news (in German). 2009-05-24. Retrieved 2026-10-05.

     The article notes: "Der Weg zur Freiheit dauerte wesentlich länger als 60 Jahre. Wer den gesamten Weg nachvollziehen will, begibt sich jetzt auf die Reise entlang der Straße der Demokratie, entdeckt herausragende Persönlichkeiten und großartige Schauplätze, hört spannende Geschichten und revolutionäre Lieder, lernt etwas über uns und unsere Demokratie. Die Straße der Demokratie ist eine 2007 unter Federführung der Städte Offenburg und Karlsruhe ins Leben gerufene Marketing-Kooperation der Städte und Schauplätze der Revolution von 1848/49. Ziel ist, zum einen die Erinnerung an die spannende Demokratiegeschichte in Deutschland wach zu halten, zum anderen die „Straße der Demokratie“ als kulturtouristische Route weiterzuentwickeln, Reiseangebote zu konzipieren sowie neue Partner zu gewinnen. Fachlich begleitet wird die Projektentwicklung von der Landeszentrale für politische Bildung Baden-Württemberg."

     From Google Translate: "The path to freedom took considerably longer than 60 years. Those wishing to trace this entire journey can now travel along the "Road of Democracy," discovering outstanding figures and significant historical sites, hearing captivating stories and revolutionary songs, and learning about us and our democracy. Launched in 2007 under the leadership of the cities of Offenburg and Karlsruhe, the "Road of Democracy" is a collaborative marketing initiative involving the cities and sites associated with the 1848/49 revolution. Its goals are twofold: to keep the memory of Germany’s compelling history of democracy alive, and to further develop the route as a cultural tourism attraction by designing travel packages and recruiting new partners. The project’s development receives expert guidance from the Baden-Württemberg State Agency for Civic Education."

  4. Park, Michael, ed. (2018). Demokratiegeschichte [History of Democracy] (PDF) (in German). Berlin: Gegen Vergessen – Für Demokratie. ISBN 978-3-00-058507-4. Archived from the original (PDF) on 2023-06-25. Retrieved 2026-10-05.

     The article notes: "Der deutsche Südwesten zeichnet sich durch vielfältige und weit zurückreichende freiheitliche und demokratische Traditionen aus, insbesondere in der Zeit von der Französischen Revolution bis in die Gegenwart. Um dieses spannende kulturhistorische Erbe in der Öffentlichkeit bekannter zu machen, haben sich auf Initiative der Städte Karlsruhe und Offenburg eine ganze Reihe von Städten und Institutionen zusammengeschlossen, die historisch mit der Freiheitsbewegung verbunden sind. Ihr länderübergreifendes Projekt ist die Straße der Demokratie. So ist es nun möglich, auf dieser Straße der Demokratie, die bislang von Lörrach im Süden bis Frankfurt am Main im Norden verläuft, die gemeinsamen freiheitlichdemokratischen Traditionen kennen zu lernen. In den beteiligten Städten erzählen Museen, Plätze, historische Gebäude oder andere Erinnerungsorte, die eng mit der Freiheitsbewegung verbunden sind, von den demokratischen Ideen unserer Vorfahren und den oft mühsamen Wegen, sie durchzusetzen."

     From Google Translate: "Germany’s southwest is distinguished by diverse and long-standing traditions of liberty and democracy, particularly from the era of the French Revolution to the present day. To raise public awareness of this fascinating cultural and historical heritage, a number of cities and institutions with historical ties to the freedom movement have joined forces—at the initiative of the cities of Karlsruhe and Offenburg—to create the “Route of Democracy.” This route, which currently stretches from Lörrach in the south to Frankfurt am Main in the north, offers an opportunity to discover these shared traditions of liberty and democracy. In the participating cities, museums, public squares, historic buildings, and other sites of remembrance closely linked to the freedom movement tell the story of our forebears’ democratic ideals and the often arduous paths taken to realize them."

  5. Moser, Simon. "Erinnerungskultur: Freiheitstag und Straße der Demokratie" [Culture of Remembrance: Freedom Day and Democracy Way] (PDF) (in German). Landesverein Badische Heimat. doi:10.57962/regionalia-16457. Archived from the original (PDF) on 2026-04-23. Retrieved 2026-10-05.

     The article is released under Creative Commons-Lizenz - CC BY - 4.0 International. The article notes: "Im Südwesten gibt es freilich noch em1ge Städte mehr, deren Geschichte auf das engste mit den Anfängen deutscher Demokratiegeschichte und der Freiheitsbewegung verbunden ist. Sie haben sich vor sechs Jahren unter der Federführung Karlsruhes und Offenburgs zum Netzwerk »Straße der Demokratie« zusammengeschlossen. Von Lörrach über Offenburg, Rastatt, Karlsruhe, Philippsburg und Mannheim, bis nach Frankfurt oder Stuttgart über Sinsheim, Neustadt mit dem Hambacher Schloss bis nach Homburg/ Zweibrücken (vertreten durch die SiebenpfeifferStiftung). Sie alle pflegen das demokratische Erbe auf ihre eigene Weise. Nicht alle Städte der Gründergruppe sind mehr dabei, andere sind hinzu gekommen und bemühen sich nun gemeinsam im Verbund, die Demokratie und ihre Errungenschaften zu stärken. Zusammen mit Gedenkstätten, Museen und Bildungseinrichtungen sollen die Themen »Freiheitsbewegung«, »Demokratie«, »Bürgerrechte« und Pflege dieses besonderen historischen Erbes in Deutschland bekannt gemacht werden."

     From Google Translate: "There are, of course, several other cities in the Southwest whose history is inextricably linked to the origins of German democracy and the freedom movement. Six years ago, under the leadership of Karlsruhe and Offenburg, they joined forces to form the "Road of Democracy" (*Straße der Demokratie*) network. The route extends from Lörrach via Offenburg, Rastatt, Karlsruhe, Philippsburg, and Mannheim to Frankfurt or Stuttgart—and via Sinsheim and Neustadt (home to Hambach Castle) as far as Homburg/Zweibrücken (represented by the Siebenpfeiffer Foundation). Each of them cultivates this democratic heritage in its own way. While not all the original founding cities remain part of the group, others have since joined, and together they strive to strengthen democracy and its achievements. In collaboration with memorial sites, museums, and educational institutions, they aim to raise awareness across Germany regarding the freedom movement, democracy, civil rights, and the preservation of this unique historical legacy."

  There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Democracy Way (German: Straße der Demokratie) to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

  Cunard (talk) 05:33, 5 October 2026 (UTC)

• Keep per the above evidence of significant coverage. The fact the article can be worked on doesn't mean it should be draftified; we don't pluck stubs made in 2011 out of article space solely because they're stubs. Stubs are in general fairly poor candidates for draftification, as they are generally not problematic to have in article space (it's hard for an article to violate content policies and guidelines when it barely has any content). –Maltazarian ^{ᚾparley$\lor$investigateᛅ} 22:14, 9 October 2026 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.